Anti-sway bar Spreadsheet...

[yvrbenz]

Originally Posted by Tsunami190E16

Yep, the 500E front bar is awesome. I have to say that with a 16v rear bar and 500E front bar the car doesn't exactly understeer "awful". I can still drift with my 16v rear bar and while it may be closer to understeer than oversteer its not going to cause you to lose control on a sharp offramp. I'd say the handling is spot on neutral. With a 16v there is a bit of oversteer anyway.

not quite.

First of all, pretty much all passenger vehicles are sold with understeer dialled in from the factory. why? Because it's a safety and liability thing. It's far easier for inexperienced (ie. non-performance) drivers to cope with understeer than it is with oversteer. A car which naturally oversteers is very twitchy in nature and requires a hell of a lot of work and concertration to keep under control, especially in the wet.

This is not to say that you cannot INDUCE oversteer with sudden steering inputs and copious amounts of right foot.

Secondly, I can tell you from personal experience that a stock 16v is dialed in with understeer. If you increase the front bar, you reduce roll resistance at that end and the net result is that the front end will break traction sooner than the rear. this, by definition, is understeer. in other words, putting a bigger bar in the front and keeping the stock rear bar will not bring the car back towards neutral, it will increase the car's tendency to push/understeer.

I swapped in and ran with a W124 Sportline front bar (stock rear bar) for a couple of years and as soon as I pulled the swap I noticed more understeer. Search to forum for my post on the swap.

After I swapped in the EvoII rear swaybar I found the car was much more "netural" than stock setup. It still understeers at the limit, but it rotates faster and more easily than it ever did. So much so that every time I autocross I have people coming up to me and asking what I've done to the car because it rotates faster than anyone ever thinks it can.

if you want to really test the limits, install an EvoII rear bar with an OEM front bar. Changes to the rear bar have a more profound effect on handling than changes to the front bar.

Spot on neutral? I doubt it. Run a G-circle with your setup and slowly apply more throttle. When you hear the tires start to squeal does your car push, or does the back end start to step out? My money is on the push.

You CAN get the back to step out by giving too much gas, but that's throttle-on oversteer it's not indicative of a car's natural tendency. you have to get the car into steady-state cornering, meaning stable consistent speed and control inputs. I've had my 16v there and, at the limit, the front washes out every time.


When you say that the 500E front bar is "awesome" what you're more than likely refering to is the reduction in body roll because aside from inducing more understeer, the effect of more front bar is less body roll.

[chuni959]

Originally Posted by yvrbenz

not quite.

First of all, pretty much all passenger vehicles are sold with understeer dialled in from the factory. why? Because it's a safety and liability thing. It's far easier for inexperienced (ie. non-performance) drivers to cope with understeer than it is with oversteer. A car which naturally oversteers is very twitchy in nature and requires a hell of a lot of work and concertration to keep under control, especially in the wet.

This is not to say that you cannot INDUCE oversteer with sudden steering inputs and copious amounts of right foot.

Secondly, I can tell you from personal experience that a stock 16v is dialed in with understeer. If you increase the front bar, you reduce roll resistance at that end and the net result is that the front end will break traction sooner than the rear. this, by definition, is understeer. in other words, putting a bigger bar in the front and keeping the stock rear bar will not bring the car back towards neutral, it will increase the car's tendency to push/understeer.

I swapped in and ran with a W124 Sportline front bar (stock rear bar) for a couple of years and as soon as I pulled the swap I noticed more understeer. Search to forum for my post on the swap.

After I swapped in the EvoII rear swaybar I found the car was much more "netural" than stock setup. It still understeers at the limit, but it rotates faster and more easily than it ever did. So much so that every time I autocross I have people coming up to me and asking what I've done to the car because it rotates faster than anyone ever thinks it can.

if you want to really test the limits, install an EvoII rear bar with an OEM front bar. Changes to the rear bar have a more profound effect on handling than changes to the front bar.

Spot on neutral? I doubt it. Run a G-circle with your setup and slowly apply more throttle. When you hear the tires start to squeal does your car push, or does the back end start to step out? My money is on the push.

You CAN get the back to step out by giving too much gas, but that's throttle-on oversteer it's not indicative of a car's natural tendency. you have to get the car into steady-state cornering, meaning stable consistent speed and control inputs. I've had my 16v there and, at the limit, the front washes out every time.

truth

thats why i always laugh at the 400e/500e bar upgrades. Why would you want your car to have more understeer?? I think i am going to put my 2.2d front swaybar on my sportline just for jokes

[mde3]

I have a limo front bar, 28.5 mm, and a reg 16V rear anti-sway mounted on a 2.6 original chassis with the 3.2 conversion..and yes there is no doubt about the under steer...however the added torque of the 3.2 allows very nice right foot control of this understeer, making for a fun and predictable car to drive.

[CrysAk]

can someone dig up the part numbers for the 500e front roll bar + bushings please , i couldnt find them browseing the thread

also what other bits would i need to fit it + an EVO 2 rear

so far i have....

REAR
evo 2 ARB - A201 326 37 65
evo 2 bushings - 210 326 0881

FRONT
500e ARB - ????
500e bushings - ???

[Ake RT]

What about the R129, can it be modified/ shorten and use with W201?

I think I can easily find 500SL sway bar than V8 W124s